Episode 05 - Med School Dropout with Dr. Nour KhatibOct 15, 2022
Dr. Kevin Mailo welcomes Dr. Nour Khatib, emergency physician and speaker, to the show to talk about her journey through finance and medicine. Dr. Khatib explains why he introduces her as a “Med School dropout” and shares how both her career backgrounds are valuable to her.
Dr. Nour Khatib divulges that in her first year of medicine at McGill she experienced burnout and spoke to administration who gave her a year off. During that year she enrolled in business school and ended up with a financial job at Pratt and Whitney. However, she returned to McGill several years later despite enjoying her financial job and she explains why to Dr. Mailo.
In this episode, Dr. Kevin Mailo and guest Dr. Nour Khatib discuss why learning something other than medicine can be a very powerful personal growth experience, the importance of the advice to “pay yourself first”, and why self care and personal wellness are such key components of a successful career as a physician, alongside financial literacy. Dr Khatib’s story and advice very much align with Dr. Wing Lam’s CBE (Continuous Business Education) theory and this episode helps to explain why it’s important practice.
About Dr. Nour Khatib:
Dr. Nour Khatib MD CM, MBA is an enthusiastic and dynamic emergency physician and financial professional with keen interest in Quality Improvement, Patient Education and Global Health. She completed her family medicine training at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center and did further training in emergency medicine at the University of Ottawa (CCFP-EM). With extensive experience and a professional record as a financial and business analyst, Dr. Khatib has excelled in both international and local firms with determination, hard work, and resourcefulness. Utilizing a broad acumen in healthcare, finance and business practices, she aims to solve issues regarding the quality of healthcare and the patient experience.
Resources discussed in this episode:
- “Millionaire Teacher” by Andrew Hallam
- “Your Money or Your Life” by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin
- “Beat the Bank” by Larry Bates
- Dalai Lama XIV quote
- Dr. Glaucomflecken
- Takotsubo Cardiomyopathy
Dr. Nour Khatib MD CM, MBA: Emergency Physician and Speaker: linkedin
Kevin Mailo 00:00
Hi, I'm Dr. Kevin Mailo, and you're listening to the Physician Empowerment Podcast. At Physician Empowerment, we're focused on transforming the lives of Canadian physicians through education and finance, practice transformation, wellness, and leadership. After you've listened to today's episode, I encourage you to visit us at physempowerment.ca. That's P H Y S empowerment.ca to learn more about the many resources we have to help you make that change in your own life, practice, and personal finances. Now on to today's episode.
Kevin Mailo 00:34
Hi, everyone. I'm Dr. Kevin Mailo, one of the cofounders of Physician Empowerment, and one of the cohosts of the Physician Empowerment Podcast. And tonight, I am very, very excited to introduce to you Dr. Nour Khatib. And Dr. Nour Khatib is a Med School dropout. And she has had a very exciting journey. And we are very happy to have her as part of our team here, speaking at our webinar, and hopefully speaking at some of our future events as well, because she's just so incredible, not only in her medical career, but also in the sphere of teaching and public speaking. And I don't know that I can introduce you properly, Nour. I think it's probably better if I just let you go. And tell us a little bit about your story. And why I introduce you as a Med School dropout.
Dr. Nour Khatib 01:24
Sure thing. Absolutely. Nice to meet everyone. Thanks for joining tonight. So yeah, Kevin's right. I am a Med School dropout. But I'm currently an emergency physician so how does that work? So what happened with me is I studied in Quebec, I studied in Quebec and I went to CEGEP and that's when you do, you can get into Med School two ways: do an undergrad, or go through quote/unquote the fast track where you can get into pre-med and you've got a guaranteed position into getting into Med School. So I thought, I was studying at Marianopolis College, which was one of the CEGEPs, there and I thought everybody was applying to Med School, maybe I should apply too. I didn't know what I wanted to, I was 18. But I did apply to Med School and I got in and I started. And within two months, I was like this linear path is scary. I don't know if I want to take this linear path. It felt like that's it, my entire life for the next 10 to 15 years is already laid out. And the path is not going to be changed. And I felt all I will know is medicine. And that, in addition to the worries of medical school, was frightening to me. I come from a family of, previously were refugees. We didn't, no one in my family had an undergraduate degree. In fact, they were all working in business or working as entrepreneurs, and just trying to make things happen, not medicine-related not science-related. So I thought to myself, 'What am I doing going into medical school?' Two months in I decided I'm completely burnt out, especially with all that overthinking and overwhelm at the age of 17 or 18, which I still think is too young to be committing to any of this. But that's a different story. And I went to the - it was McGill - so I went to the administration office and I spoke to them, I told them how I was feeling. And they're like, yep, we recognize this. It's called burnout. You're experiencing it, and now we have a solution to your burnout, you're going to take a year off. Doesn't work like that. A solution to burnout is not just a year off. But that's what they said, I was 18 and they gave me a year off. So I decided to take it. In that year off - really within two weeks - I thought to myself, I can't take a year off, that's, you know, Type A personalities, we're not going to take time off. I ended up enrolling in business school. I ended up enrolling at the John Wilson School of Business, doing some finance courses, and absolutely loving it. And thinking to myself, 'Hey, I fit in'. You know? I fit in here. It makes sense to me. It's so exciting, there's presentations, no one's lives are at stake, it's great. And there's no linear path. That part was great because I didn't have to do another degree after or post grad or decide on what specialty. That's it. I can start there, continue, and literally the world is my oyster, I can work in finance or business in any field I want. A year later, McGill gives me a call and they're like, 'Well, you haven't been responding to our emails. So do you want your spot because it's kind of a guaranteed spot, something that's super coveted'. I was like, 'Oh, thank you so much. I actually am in finance now, I switched careers, please give my spot to someone else'. And of course, they've got tons of people to give the spot to and they went ahead and did that. So I worked in finance. I worked in finance and I did co-op and I ended up at graduation, had already worked for three companies after doing some co-op, and the third company basically offered me a contract. And it was Pratt and Whitney Canada. It's an airplane engine manufacturer. And I loved working there. I can't tell you that I loved the job itself. But working there, being in a team, having projects together with engineers, financial analysts, all sorts, I was thriving in that environment. But come and ask me if I liked what I was doing on an Excel spreadsheet? Excel is dear to my heart this very day, but no, not for the rest of my life. I can't imagine myself doing that for the rest of my life. But I loved being in that company. And had I not left, I would have been there forever.
Kevin Mailo 05:41
Wow. So okay, so you're, you're at this great company? How did you un-drop out of Med School? Nour, tell us how you un-dropped out of Med School?
Dr. Nour Khatib 05:52
Sure. So the way it works is, really it just goes to show you that sometimes just stars align and, you know, I never used to be a believer of that, but really, like, there was an opportunity, and I kind of went for it. That year, my prerequisites were going to be expired, that like eight years out--
Kevin Mailo 06:15
-- yeah, Med School prerequisites, yeah.
Dr. Nour Khatib 06:18
And then I heard from a friend of a friend that McGill are removing their MCATS. And I never thought about going back to Med School. Why would I? Pat and Whitney was paying for my MBA, I had already gotten promoted twice, I'm in the middle of the recession in 2008, and I had a job and life was good. There's no reason for me to think of leaving. But someone, there was a seed that was planted that, hey, McGill has removed their MCATs, now it's easier for you to apply. So I decided to look into it. Because there's no way I would have studied for the MCATs, there's no way I would have like been wanting it enough. I decided to, you know what, I'm going to apply, and I'm going to see what happens. And I ended up going for it. I spoke to my manager at work, and the VP Finance of the company, and we were close, like we were, you know, and I told them about what I was thinking. And what they told me is, they're like, 'You know what, you're gonna get bored here. You like it now but you're gonna get bored, you're gonna get promoted, and you're gonna not enjoy the job at some point. You like who you're working with, but they could change. You need to love your career.' And that's, and they told me, they're like, we will write you your reference letters, just go for it. And I decided to go for it. And it felt like I had nothing to lose, I didn't have the pressures of the first time or the pressures that my colleagues had. And that's something that I've told a lot of my friends who, or a lot of people, friends' kids who are trying to get into Med School, I tell them learn something else first. Learn something else, find something else. And don't let it be a one path, a linear path, to the finish line. Because you're living throughout this journey. It's still life, you're not, you don't start living when you graduate, you're living throughout it.
Kevin Mailo 08:17
You know it, that's very powerful. That's very powerful. I like that a lot. So you got in.
Dr. Nour Khatib 08:24
And the thing is, though, all throughout this, whether it's the finance degree or the MBA, I can tell you for certain, none of the personal finance knowledge that I know today came from that. It was all theoretical. It was all, you know, project based, case based for certain companies, and theoretical. Just because I have a finance degree and an MBA does not make me better at personal finance than Kevin. Absolutely not. It's really when I started to make money after residency, and I sat back and I said, 'Oh, okay, so now I'm making money. Now I'm paying off debts. What do I do now with this?' What is there to do? Like, do I go to a financial advisor and just say, here, you do everything? Or do I take care of it myself? So that was hard. The first year out of residency is always difficult. Whether it's, you know, you're doubting yourself, your competence, you're just trying to learn the ropes, you've taken over a practice, which in itself is entrepreneurial and business-minded to begin with. And the first year out, I did a lot of working of course, and learning medicine and building that confidence in medicine, in the first few years out. But what I tried to carve out is a little bit of time every week to look into and learn about personal finance.
Kevin Mailo 09:50
Can I stop you there? Wing came up with a great term for this, and it's not just about personal finance, but it's also about practice management. And he calls it C B E. And that is Continuous Business Education. Just like we constantly invest in our knowledge and skills as physicians, we need to constantly invest in our knowledge and skills as investors and practice managers, or, you know, those that run our practices. So I'll let you continue, though. Keep going.
Dr. Nour Khatib 10:19
Oh, no worries. I mean, what did that involve? First of all, I felt defeated right from the start. Because I was like, hold on a second, you were in finance, and you worked in the field, and you don't know what you're doing with your money? Like, that's embarrassing. First of all, I told myself don't admit it to anyone, but here I am. Which is totally fine. It really goes to show you that you do not need to have a degree, these things that you're learning are for yourself and through other people's mistakes. And the quicker you learn them, doesn't matter how far out you're in, but the quicker you decide, and take the initiative to learn from other people's mistakes, the more likely you're going to succeed. And the more freeing it is, once I decided that I am going to be taking care of my own finances, doing my own budgeting, realizing that number one is I pay myself first. And I break down what I earn and from where and I actually know where things are coming from. And in the beginning, in the first few months, I wasn't sure where my money was coming from. I was like, from here, from here, from there, what am I spending it on? Oh, probably like, you know, food and rent and before, you know, before owning anything, what? No, that's probably where it went. But the truth is, I needed to break it down and really study and analyze where things are coming from.
Kevin Mailo 11:40
Can I stop you there? Talk about paying yourself first. This one's thrown around in finance all the time, it's a very old term. Just share with our audience of what it means, because there's going to be some out there that don't know, or you know, don't think about it expansively enough.
Dr. Nour Khatib 11:55
Sure. I'll just give you an example of, like, what I do first. So what I do is - and when they say pay yourself first, the underlying meaning is really live within your means, and know the measures of what you're dealing with in terms of your money - but here's what I do. Every 15th of every month, right? Like between the first and the 15th, you pretty much make, everything starts coming in from whatever sources that you're working, right? And then towards the 20th of the month or so I decide, okay - and I'm incorporated, so this example kind of goes to those who are incorporated, but it doesn't matter it'll fit both - I first give myself a salary, and pay my taxes on that salary, and I'm living within that salary means. Everything else goes to savings.
Kevin Mailo 12:44
Dr. Nour Khatib 12:46
So let's keep numbers simple. Let's say I pay myself $10,000, and everything else goes into the corporation, or goes into wherever you decide to put it if you're not incorporated. But let's say that $10,000 I think to myself, okay, what am I going to do with this $10,000? What do I, how much do I need? And I'm just giving you a round number. Let's say I just need $3000 or $4,000 just to live that month, whether it's a mortgage, food, gas, whatever it is, that's aside. And now, what am I doing with the rest? Well, I'm putting some in my TFSA. I am putting a few in my savings accounts. And my savings accounts are funny looking. So I've got like six. Why do I have six? I have one emergency fund. I have one car fund for when my car breaks down six, seven years from now. And I have a vacation fund. And what else? I'm interested in flight school. So I have one for flight school.
Kevin Mailo 13:39
Wow. Of course you do, Nour, of course you're gonna be flying airplanes. Honestly, it's amazing. It speaks to dreams. And you're one of those people that obviously lives your dreams. I admire it and respect it immensely. Keep going, keep going. Sorry.
Dr. Nour Khatib 13:55
Once I put enough money in the vacation fund, I know I can take a vacation. So that's every month, that's how I divide things up. And that feels in itself super empowering. Just the fact that you've laid out your dreams, you've laid out what you want to spend your money on, you've already paid yourself. And you know, you can't go over that.
Kevin Mailo 14:17
Well and it gives you space to really enjoy things. Right? You know what I mean? If you have a budget, and you're like, okay, we're going out for a great dinner tonight. And this is something we budgeted for and there's money for it, we're gonna drop 200 bucks on great food and great wine and not feel one ounce of guilt for it because we saved and, you know, planned for it. It's such a powerful thing, right? It's more than just money. More than money, it's more than dollars and cents. It's really about building a better life and being happier and more at peace with your finances, which are a big part of our everyday existences. Can I go a little bit further on paying yourself first, right? Because we talked about like month to month budgeting, but the notion of paying yourself first is you can go past that as well and you can look to the future. And really, you know, that paying yourself first means that you are setting aside money that you're investing every month, every year, for a time in your life years or decades from now, when you are older, and need to be taken care of, right? And it's not just, you know, those frail years, you know, in the final decade or two of our lives, but it can actually be much sooner. And I think many of us who work in medicine are reminded of that on a daily basis, people who become sick or disabled at tragically young ages. And I don't want to be all doom and gloom, but there's this idea that as we age, we have to create more space for our well being. And I'll just share my own personal story. I remember graduating less than 10 years ago, I graduated in practice in 2013. And I remember loving the night shifts, and you're an ER doctor, right Nour, you know, you understand it. I loved the night shifts, I was working, I was fast. I was, you know, I felt great. I would go to the gym after, you know, a night shift and then go to sleep, wake up, go do it again. Of course I did, right?
Dr. Nour Khatib 16:09
After a night shift?
Kevin Mailo 16:11
And then, you know, because I mean, because I'm an ER doctor, I should have gone for a bike ride as well, right?
Dr. Nour Khatib 16:15
With your Patagonia.
Kevin Mailo 16:16
Yeah, exactly. Like Dr. Glaucomflecken which, by the way, I should send that link out, it's great. Or he's got a number of those skits. But you know, the bottom line is that for myself, within five years of doing that, and working at that pace, I was already feeling tired. And that's when I realized things need to change. And I was shocked at how quick that came. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, oh, well, I'll get tired in 20 years. No, I got tired within five years. You know, four young kids, you know, careers in the household. There was a lot going on. And so, you know, I downshifted and one of the reasons why I was able to downshift is during that time, thankfully, that first five years, I was doing a lot of paying myself first. I was investing in a lot of real estate, not doing it perfectly, not necessarily doing it with a really clear plan, but I was doing it. And I got to a point where I could actually pause and say, 'You know what, I don't need to work these night shifts anymore'. And so I moved off them within five years of practice. So that's just my own little piece. My own little story. Yeah. So it's this idea that there's going to come a time in our lives, there really does come a time in our lives, when we just want to be doing something else. Right, whether it's focusing on family, passions, hobbies, you know, even just our personal well being, even just sleeping more, you know? I had a doctor told me she has not slept since residency, right? You know what I mean? These things happen all the time in our lives. And so just creating that space to live a better life. And, you know, practice how we want to practice is so important. And a cornerstone to that is paying ourselves first, is, you know, putting away money, learning to invest it, and growing that nest egg, so that we take that pressure off to earn. So sorry, I'll let you continue, and hopefully not have any more interruptions from my busy...
Dr. Nour Khatib 18:07
Oh, no, please, please.
Kevin Mailo 18:09
It's really cute.
Dr. Nour Khatib 18:10
You and your daughter are totally welcome. One thing you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, we don't want to be doing this all our lives, we want to move on to other things and hobbies and whatnot. What I learned early on, and I'm so glad I learned it early on - and even for you, Kevin, it looks like you've learned the importance of all of this early on, and I'm thankful for that - is don't wait for these hobbies. Don't wait for the things you want to do. Don't let it be a linear path. I did not want medicine to be a linear path. I promised myself, had I returned the second time, that it like, if I were to continue--
Kevin Mailo 18:51
-- I love how you, I gotta interrupt, I love that you say 'return the second time'. To Med School. I don't meet a lot of people who say that sort of thing. Okay keep going.
Dr. Nour Khatib 18:59
I thought to myself, if I was going to return, I was going to take this as a life experience. I am not going to be a person in, like with my head in the books all the time. I was, because trust me, you go from finance, when you go from finance to try to learn physiology, you're, you know, like, yeah no, it was a disaster. And of course my head was in the books all the time trying to catch up, really. But the truth is, I told myself, this is not just going to be me, it's not going to be the linear path. Because if it is, I will burn out right away. And I realized that one year out, is that I had colleagues doing 20 shifts a month. And you know what? They're doing it, but really, is that longevity? Is that sustainable? Probably not. I don't do that much. I don't do that many shifts a month. I work probably every day a month, but not necessarily in emergency medicine.
Kevin Mailo 19:50
Well, and this is exactly it. And this was the advice that, you know, I'd gotten years ago in residency and that is a career in medicine is not a sprint. It is a marathon. And by creating that financial space to have a more balanced life, to sleep, to exercise, to eat right, to all the things you need to be doing that you would tell your own patient, means that you are going to be able to really enjoy your career for the long haul and really do your best medicine. You know, my patients are so much happier since I slowed down. If I can be perfectly honest. And it's wonderful. I just I love love being there.
Dr. Nour Khatib 20:26
You probably miss it, too, if you haven't gone in a few days. You miss it.
Kevin Mailo 20:30
A little bit, a little bit. This unbeatable summer weather. I don't know about that right now. But yeah, like, and it's just wonderful to share in it. You know, I picked up a Takotsubo cardiomyopathy, there are gonna be some people that are just rolling their eyes, like what does that mean? You know, because they sat there and talked to an elderly gentleman who said he was really experiencing childhood trauma. Right? Yeah. And I would never, like, you know, I just had that time because I wasn't in that big rush. You know, just enjoying my job more. And so anyhow, I mean I love this, Nour. I love what you're sharing. Keep going. We've got a little bit more time. Tell us a little bit more about your journey.
Dr. Nour Khatib 21:07
And so where was I? So let's say a year out. A year out, I decided I'm going to teach myself personal finance. How did I do it? Whether it's reading blogs, reading certain books that have helped others? A couple of books that have helped me are...
Kevin Mailo 21:22
What are your favorites, what are your favorites?
Dr. Nour Khatib 21:23
"Millionaire Teacher" was my favorite because it just hit all the points. Yeah, it just hit all the points. And it was very basic. It wasn't too complex. And it was one of my favorite recommendations. "Beat the Bank" is a pretty good one, too. Thing is, once you start reading these, they all say the same thing in the end. And one that I'm currently reading, and I know I will be rereading, is "Your Money or Your Life?"
Kevin Mailo 21:45
Oh, I like that.
Dr. Nour Khatib 21:46
And the whole concept of that one - and it was written, I believe in the 70s or 80s, but then it was revamped in 2018 for nowadays - "Your Money or Your Life", the concept is, if someone were to put a gun to your back and say 'your money or your life', obviously, you know, you'd say, here take all my money.
Kevin Mailo 22:04
Dr. Nour Khatib 22:05
But the truth is, our rat race towards money is costing us our life. And just because it's not as dramatic as a gun to your back, it's prolonged. You are losing life, because we are chasing money in a way that is a poor relationship with money. We are working more and exhausting ourselves to make more, rather than trying to work smarter or work and be happier in our job.
Kevin Mailo 22:33
So I'm going to interrupt you there. And I'm just pulling up the quote right now. But there's this great quote from the Dalai Lama when he was asked about what surprised him the most in humanity, and he said, "Man himself, because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices his money to recuperate his health." You know, and he is so anxious, what does it say here? Sorry, I'm just, I'm going off, but it's so anxious about the future, he doesn't enjoy the present, right? And it's so true, Nour. It's so true, what you're sharing, that we just get caught up in this rat race of earning, thinking, oh, I'll live next year, or I'll be happier next year. I'll be healthier next year, but we really shouldn't be living like that.
Dr. Nour Khatib 23:16
100% 100%. And it's, you know,what, not every day is perfect. The last few weeks for me have been rough, I have to say. I worked, I ended up, I would say the first year out was rough. A few years after that, trying to, you know, get things along was great. And then you start getting, you go through this burnout phase of the whole profession is collapsing on itself, unfortunately. And you really just have to step back and realize these are systemic problems. That your job is to take it one patient at a time, and take care of whoever's in front of you right now. And just do the best you can with the intentions and with the resources that you can. And just be, every day ends and a shift ends. Right? At the end of it, it's over and you've tried your best, and that's all you can say to yourself is that you've done everything you can at that time. And then you can move on to helping others. The problem is in our profession, is there's all this cumulative PTSD from the horrible cases that have gone wrong. And that that takes a toll on us. And I honestly do think every doctor needs a therapist. Every doctor needs a therapist, every person needs a therapist. But whether it's in the good times or the bad.
Kevin Mailo 24:32
I think that's incredibly powerful, incredibly powerful.
Dr. Nour Khatib 24:36
Let the therapist see your good times, hearing your good times in order for you to be able to go through your bad times.
Kevin Mailo 24:41
I look at it like going to the gym or eating right. It's something you should make a part of your life. Not something you just do here and there or when things get bad. That is exactly my view as well. Everyone should have one. Everyone should have one. We deal with a lot of sadness and trauma and heartbreak in this job. And we don't necessarily internalize that, because we're so highly trained. But the truth is we deal with a lot, across all specialties, across all specialties. And there's a lot of stress associated with it. We deal with a lot of risk, right? We don't necessarily internalize that either, how much risk we deal with when we discharge patients, you know, your psychiatrists, you decide not to form that patient, there's a risk they could go out and harm themselves, right? Like there's risk to everything we do, even as a radiologist. Is it a thing? Or is it not a thing? Right, but it's true. It's true. You know, that's a very beautiful observation, though. About he importance of ongoing mental and emotional health.
Dr. Nour Khatib 25:45
Kevin Mailo 25:49
Yeah. I love it.
Dr. Nour Khatib 25:51
And so like I mentioned, I don't do as many emergency shifts as, let's say, the typical emergency doctor. But I still consider myself as I am an emergency physician. It is my profession. I might be doing surgical assist, cardiac stress test clinic, event doctoring, I do speaking on the side to corporations.
Kevin Mailo 26:14
Of course you do, Nour. Of course you do. Okay, keep going,
Dr. Nour Khatib 26:17
I teach people about personal finance. And I, you know, I enjoy doing all these different things. One thing that I - remember earlier, I was saying, don't wait for your hobbies, don't wait to do your hobbies later, try to pick them up and do them now, whatever it is that you enjoy it just make it part of your life, just like how you schedule a shift - so I do Muay Thai kickboxing. I'm a voiceover artists that does work on the side for commercials just for fun. It doesn't pay much, but I enjoy it. So if you ,like, I've done a few commercials on the radio and one for Hershey's as well. And it's just something I enjoy doing. And it's something that I think everyone needs to find what it is they like, whether it pays or doesn't pay, just make sure that it's part of your life.
Kevin Mailo 27:00
You know, I really, really love that. So we're kind of coming up on 30 minutes. I'm shocked at how quickly it's flown by. And then we obviously have to get you back on another webinar and on to like a formal podcast episode as well. Because there's just so much wisdom here, right? I mean, one of my reflections on this financial journey for myself in talking to physicians coast to coast about money, is that the world is full of knowledge, facts and information. I mean, go on YouTube, you learn about real estate, you buy crypto, you learn about buying crypto, you can learn about day trading, learn about all these things, but that that wisdom, what you're sharing today, Nour, is in such short supply in our world in many respects. And, you know, a lot of us are chasing money or, you know, trying to earn or trying to invest. But not asking ourselves what do I really want in life? You know, and does my financial plan align with my life's goals? But I just, I love what you shared. And I just want to recap that notion of paying yourself first, right? Setting a budget, living within the budget, enjoying the budget, celebrating it right? Like if you've got 10 grand for that vacation, go and blow that 10 grand on a vacation and really enjoy yourself. And do it knowing that you've already paid yourself, then you've already filled up your investment accounts, and you've already made that move in real estate or done whatever. So that you have space to live right now. Knowing that also that future version of yourself that is older, sicker, tired, doesn't want to work those night shifts, doesn't want to do that call, that person is also taken care of. And I think that's so, so important. So I gotta wrap it up. But I'd love to hear any final thoughts you have, anything else you want to share about yourself, about your journey.
Dr. Nour Khatib 28:49
It's really been about learning, making mistakes, ups and downs. And that's what life is no matter what. The quicker you realize that what your business here is called, physician empowerment, is about feeling empowered with regards to your finances and your life. And don't let medicine win. You are in control of medicine. You are the captain of this ship, and you're going to be steering it. Do not let medicine take over your life. It is a tool we use to help people, but physician heal thyself first.
Kevin Mailo 29:29
Wow. Wow. That was incredible. And so true. So I think we're gonna, I think we're gonna wrap up there. I'm so, so glad and so, so grateful to have you on tonight like this. Thank you so much, Nour.
Kevin Mailo 29:47
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